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The Knowledge Friend |
peace all-
first, apologies for the long absence; i've transitioned out of almost all day-to-day management duties for meshell and am instead focused on finishing the new album and other strategic planning. this change is largely for personal reasons and, as a result of the different information flow, i haven't been on the board much. still, i just want to drop in a few notes to keep people in the loop. 1) the new album is finished, well almost. recording is done, it just needs to be mastered. there have been several delays, most unrelated to maverick, so if the album comes out later than expected (projected for october 2003) it is really not a label issue... as some of you who have heard the new mateiral live know, it is an interesting collection of songs. a lot of reggae feel, and now that i've listened a bit, an interesting compliment to "bitter".... as usual, meshell has shifted direction from the last album, but still seems to be in dialogue with her previous work. it will be interesting to see how folks respond to a record of mainly love songs with a more "urban" framework in juxtaposition to the response to "bitter" and its challenge to what peole think of as a "black" format. 2) as has been noted, the verve projet, Papillon, has been pushed to january. we will see if this needs to be changed once we have a firm release date for the maverick record. 3) lots has been made of the new band. well, hopefully people understand that she has been recording and has had virtually no rehearsal time. rehearsal is expensive, particularly when you are not on a major tour with tour support. so time and money have made it difficult for her to really work with the new cats. rest assured, they are all top notch musicians... they just are trying to work it out. comparing them to the core of gene, federico and cato is like comapring sting's first band as a solo artist (branford marsalis, kenny kirkland, omar hakim) to the police... great players but you can't expect them to gell the same way. and when that Sting band did become kick-ass, which it did, it was after they were holed up for months together rehearsing, writing and recording... so chemistry will take a minute to develop. the key to any experience is releasing all expectations... that way you come closest to truly experiencing the "now" and "what is." 4) some really fun tracks meshell did with bassman jaxx should be coming out soon. also, meshell may be doing another interesting london-based proejct soon. 5) most importantly to me, meshell seems happy to me. work is hard, the whole marketing thing is a drag, breaking in a new band is difficult, and life is life, but still, she seems good to me, looks healthy, is writing tunes upon tunes and is exploring new ideas constantly through books, art and just riding the subway (when in nyc). i think some interesting art will emerge from this period. ok, i'll try to pass on whatever new info emerges. peace,kt |
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Friend |
 KT. Thanks for your update. let me know if you need any help. will work for music  |
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Friend |
kt,
thank you so much for taking a few minutes to update meshell's loyal fans! You are a blessing, as is matthew for this site!!  |
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Admirer |
ditto, all the above. It's truly appreciated when you take the time to update her loyal fans, kt!
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Admin |
quote:i think we're forgetting one thing though. most of the online community, as well as those that have never seen freemyheart.com or meshell.com have no idea that she has a new band. so they go out to see her. they buy tickets for friends. they pump up their friends with how great the band is, etc. these are the best kind of music fans. they go to every show not knowing what she'll play. they don't care because the band she had with cato, gene and federico was top notch... she'd joke with the crowd... have a good time... it was a given that she was happy, because she was on stage with the best band on the planet... so here they are... her longtime loyal fanbase... they're standing there when meshell and the band come out. those that have seen her before, know what to expect. and when cato, federico, and gene aren't there, they spend a good portion of the show with "where are they?" going through their head. it is nice to finally see someone in her circle finally speaking to this publicly, but i think it's safe to say that until meshell does some interviews or makes a public statement on meshell.com about this... there will unfortunately be a lot of disappointed people out there. my friend told me he read a book about recording contracts and said that meshell might not be able to make such a statement on meshell.com... and even then, i'm not sure if it will help tone down some of the harsh reactions to her shows that i've been reading. people have basically come to count on an incredible experience when it comes to going to one of her shows... unless they're one of the few that visit the message boards at freemyheart and meshell.com, they're basically in for quite a surprise... and then since they've not had any rehearsal time together, the audience is then spending the rest of the show (and conversations that follow) saying that it was a mistake to replace the core of gene, cato & federico with the new band. that's obviously not really fair to meshell, or her new band. but at the same time, i think that either management, the label, or meshell is expecting a bit much of her loyal fanbase to not wonder what is happening... and to worry about where meshell is going with these changes. (all due to the lack of basic communication.) it's like going to your favorite restaurant over a 10 year period. you know what to expect. yeah, the stuff on the menu changes... but damn, that place is good. and then suddenly, you show up one night with a group of friends and management has changed. the cook is there, but everything else has changed... unless you have a lot of faith in that cook, you're not ever going to go back to that restaurant again. that's my fear... that's the problem i have with seeing all of these negative reactions... lack of communication has always been a serious problem when it came to staying in touch with her fans (hence why i have 212 interviews in the museum portion of this website. it's basically the only way (other than your updates) to keep her admirers connected to her.) until someone makes an effort to keep the fans updated on a regular basis, these kind of reactions that we're seeing to the shows over the last year are going to continue. anyways, i'm rambling at this point... i don't really have a solution. she felt it was right to make the band changes at this time, and wanted to go out on tour before the band was ready... that is on her, her band, and those that bought tickets to the shows. i just hope it doesn't have a longterm effect on her career... and that folks will hang in there... |
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Friend |
hey guys .... haven't been around for a while as I was traveling through the middle east and Europe on some buisness ... Mathew i couldn't have agreed more - As many of us here do I always bring to every show someone new who has never heard of her or ahs never heard her live before and was very dissapointed at the last show ... of course the "new people" that were with me had a good time , but I think they were expecting a bit more after my HYPE ... anyway i think the point has been made - While i love KT's comparisment to Sting's situation when he started his solo career, As a musician I would have appreciated Bashir taking the time to rehearse a bit with the band before putting all of them up on stage with her , in front of a paying audience ... good things , no , great things ahead , for sure ...
peace honestnotes . |
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The Knowledge Friend |
peace-
i think you are both missing the point. communication has nothing to do with this. if a post was put up saying, "i'm changing the band, etc..." people would still go to the show because its meshell, and they'd still be pleased or disappointed based upon their expectations. this has happened with other personnel shifts before... when shawn rikman replaced gene and michael caine replaced federico because both were about to become fathers. and these negative responses have mostly come from people in the online community, who also happen to be the loyal base that goes to as many shows as possible and therefore has the most expectation... or has hyped up their friends. in both scenarios, expectations create the issue, not lack of communication. for meshell's part, she has said from the stage that its a new band.... which is why, in people's comments, they have included info like "she said her bass player has been with her for 2 days..." the only shows where people have really flipped are the annapolis and philly shows, and that was because she played for 45 mins at the latter (not because of the band or its quality), and because the company arrived late for the former (because the equipment truck broke down). beyond these shows, we are mainly talking about die-hard fans who have seen lots of shows feeling disappointed, and no disclaimer or communication could possibly change that. in terms of not getting up on stage without properly rehearsing the band, that is a more valid critique but also not grounded in the economic realities of the contemporary music industry nor reflective of who we are talking about. briefly on the first, reahearsal of a new band should easily be 2 weeks, if not 3. at easily $10k a week in rehearsal space, rentals, per diem, hotel and salary for the band & crew, there is no way an artist that sells what meshell has sold or gets the performance fees she gets is going to be able to do that without tour support from the label, and few labels are going to dole out any money for tour support that isn't directly tied to the promotion of an album... the new album is not on the release schedule yet, so that is out. then the biggest factor is that we are talking about meshell, someone who loves to play live because it fuels her creatively... she often gets ideas for songs while on stage, she is a jazz musician at heart who loves to play off her band mates, and she listens for new melodies, harmonies and arrangements. hence, she'll jump on stage with chocolate genius in a small bar in brooklyn with no rehearsal just to have fun. she also comes from the school of "throw em in the water and see what happens..." being a top musician requires being on the edge a bit, taking risks and performing outside of one's comfort zones... that's how creativity keeps being pushed to the next level. when i was booking her touring, i tried to minimize these experiments/explorations to small gigs that were explicitly not part of a tour... the joe's pub gigs and tonic gigs are examples. jeff, who is doing her touring now, has felt more comfortable setting up real dates, and i imagine he has done so because he is under pressure from meshell to get out on the road to bounce some of these new ideas off of real people. all that to say, these issues are much more complex than communication or rehearsal. we love meshell because of her creativity but then are mad when she doesn't deliver what we expect; we love her for her risk-taking but are disappointed when the performance isn't polished; we love her for not compromising her art for the purpose of sales but then are mad when she doesn't have the money to fully rehearse a band; we want her new album to come out but are mad she hasn't had time to work with the new band. and even so, she and this band are still better than 75% of the bands out there... true, a drop from the top 1%, but like i said, time will tell. as for losing fans, you should know that this isn't a prime concern in any decision meshell makes. she loves and ppreciates the love and appreciation people show her, but if it all stops, she's fine with that too. she makes her art because she has to, not because she has to be loved. she lost 'plantation' fans when 'faggot' was released on 'peace'; she lost fans when 'bitter' came out; then lost fans of 'bitter' when 'cookie' came out; that's all cool. if folks need to move on, well, growth is good. peace, kt |
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Friend |
KT - heard u deserve a congrats .
I agree with everything that u said yet the fact of the matter is an audience need not consider the realities of the contemporary music industry economy - We are talking about people who paid their hard earned Dime to get inspired, to feel free , to be embraced by the illusion of a non-confronting reality ...maybe advertising this as an "experimental jam session" or such would have had folks more prepared...no doubt change is good - and they sounded fabulous on KCRW . as a fan i enjoy checking out the way to the music as much as i enjoy the music itself .it gives me goosebumps to hear her play a song on "ecclectic" and then remember all about how she used a certain line or riff at a show a year or two years ago while jammin' to a different tune ... peace. honestnotes |
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quote: kt, i couldnt agree more. i love meshell not just because of her music. its much more for me, she is someone I have come to respect for her views on things. she doesnt bite her tongue for fear of losing a "fan". That i respect. i agree with alot of her thoughts and her creativity. For those reasons and many more it makes her music even more beautiful to me. almost like when you meet someone that is sooooo fine and then you realize they dont have s**t to say, doesnt it make them less attractive? well, opposite analogy, but you get my drift?? keep up the good work and lets continue our dialgue people...talk is good!!! |
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Admin |
i think communication has to do with everything.
this current tour & the fall tour are being billed as such. and with past meshell tours, fans have come to expect greatness... not just from her, but from her band as well. prince's fan base, which has continued to grow over the years despite his views, band changes, etc is a good comparison. because there is such a strong online community (alt.music.prince and prince.org being the two places fans generally get their info about him), they know after the first show, who and what is happening. when prince dumped the npg members michael bland and sonny t, and replaced them with larry graham (one time great bassist, current brain washer and preacher) and kirk johnson (one time gameboyz dancer/shit producer) it hurt his career. fans grew tired of being preached to, and there were no longer the great 10 minute jams that we used to hear with the revolution, lovesexy, and earlier versions of his npg bands. while prince's studio work from 1989-2003 showed a continued decline, one could at least remain a fan because the live show remained killer. that was until sonny & michael were replaced with larry & kirk. that was because prince then began doing different things. it wasn't about art. in the past prince needed a different sound, so he went with a different kind of drummer (or drum machine)... now? he was replacing one of the best drummers out there with someone who made it so prince couldn't even do the the drum solo part in "the jam" anymore. yes, the people who became the most upset were his most loyal fans. you can draw comparisons between what has been happening right now with meshell over the last 10 months or so, to what has happened with prince during the larry graham/kirky j years. if meshell wants to throw fits (as i've read repeatedly about) because the sound is continually bad, then there's something going on. her fanbase, which is a lot like prince's in how they support her because they count on her changing things up with her art, have come to expect only one thing from her (and this is meshell's fault)... an incredible live show that has been compared at times to pfunk, prince, miles, etc. you said it yourself kt. you didn't book these kind of shows as a tour for a reason. jeff obviously is thinking differently, or is being forced to do so. is there anything wrong with that? no. both meshell and prince have the right to bring shows to the people that will cause them to lose respect and love for meshell. there will always be the fans that go out to every show of meshell's because they are infatuated with her. "she's so fine", etc. same with prince. they come back and instead of ripping his band a new one for playing 2 minute medley's the entire show, they instead say how they don't like his hairstyle. for those fans, it'll never be about the music... or the art. for those of us concerned about what we've been reading over the last 10 months... we're concerned because we've seen the same mistakes made by other artists and we are afraid of that pattern. we will still go to the shows. we will still support meshell. we will still see glimpses of greatness that we saw in the past when she had bandmembers that she'd been playing with for more than 10 years. the only point that is being made right now is that everyone is noticing. from the first time concertgoer who has never been to a meshell show who has heard nothing but great things, to the fan who has gone to every possible show within their means. * the onstage persona has completely changed * the band has been completely changed * she's on one tour, and going on another major tour in the fall... and the band isn't ready yet * for those that know, management has changed completely... all of these changes, combined with the harsh negative responses by both hardcore and non-music fans is reason for concern. it seems like there is no direction. you say that meshell is happy, yet all we read about is negativity on stage... yes, this fuels her studio work, and i along with everyone else in her fanbase hold our breath waiting for her next note of music be it on record, or on stage. i've said it before... those of us that are about the music will continue to support her. those that are going to a show who have never seen her before and haven't bought any of her records yet, won't. there's been no explanation for the 45 minute gig. i made excuses at okayplayer for the philly gig. (ones that made sense.) this is about communication. the last email from maverick stated that the list of tourdates were the only *confirmed* tourdates out there. that is likely because management doesn't want the current dates to conflict with the fall dates. (meaning they want fans to go to both shows.) duh. i've never, ever understood this. if you love an artist, you're going to go to both shows anyways. this time around though, it does affect sales of tickets because i've suggested to people that if they are going to bring first timers along with them to her shows, they should wait. in the past, the best way to get someone hooked on meshell's music and message has been to drag someone that appreciates music and art to one of her shows. at this time, people are questioning that technique. why? not because she's lost fans, or because they can't relate to the music... but because the product being served isn't ready yet... i say the restaurant comparisons, as well as the comparisons to career/business choices prince has made since leaving warner are also valid. and again, yeah, i've said it 3 times... we (as true prince fans have throughout his career) will continue to support her through this time... we have faith that her band will get it together through rehearsal (aka tourdates)... admirers like Derek, honestnotes, and myself will continue to see the good at the shows, while you'll still see the negativity elsewhere. i'll close with one last thing. one thing that meshell has always had going for her is critical raves... you'll notice that over the last year, there have been less than a handful of reviews of her concerts by critics... why is this? one could assume this has to do them not wanting to hurt her career. they realize she has a new group. they realize that they haven't rehearsed... they know that her status will return to greatness on stage once they have it down. until then, they (and most of us) bite our tongue, and wait for the clouds of negativity (both her's, and her fans') clear up. |
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Friend |
well.. i just saw meshell last night at the roxy in l.a. and having read all these posts about band changes and the loss of cato and federico and gene, etc.. i wasn't really sure what to expect. but let me just say first off, i had a fabulous time, as i always do at meshell concerts..
and the band? awesome.. i won't compare them to cato et al.. but they were just fine. you could tell some of them were new.. in fact it was the first night for the drummer (chris dave?) and he did damn good considering! i think what's missing in all these discussions is that despite the loss of the old band, the new band just needs some time and surely at some point in the future they will be just as tight as the old band. sure, you had moments when meshell had to guide the band, which she never had to do with the brethren (at least later in the game) because they were just flawless, but that's COOL, that's awesome that we get to witness a new band in it's early stages and see how meshell works with them. considering they haven't rehearsed much i thought they were fantastic! i mean, you could tell that a beat was missed here and there (not as often as one might expect), but so what? it's a live show, you've got meshell on stage giving you all she's got.. she's churning out new, funky tunes, jamming her ass off, her band is dripping with sweat, working their asses off to please meshell, please the audience.. and let me say i was damn pleased. if you dig meshell, you dig meshell.. you dig what she's about, you dig her politics, you dig her sound, you dig her vibe.. you dig the fact that she's trying to do the best she can to work with the new band and yet keep touring and making shit happen. she could just as easily be sitting around waiting for her label to give her money to rehearse, but she isn't.. she's out there.. rehearsing on stage, if you will, and i for one certainly don't have a problem with that and am happy to pay $30 to watch her every night if i could. in fact, i'm going back to the roxy tonight to watch her do it again. so.. say what you will.. do what you must.. whine about your hard earned money and if that's how you feel, wait a couple of years before you go see her live.. if you dig meshell, you dig meshell regardless. forget about everything else and just support her because if it's money she needs to get rehearsal time in to fine tune the band, then support her and help her get just that. just know that all things transition.. all things evolve.. meshell is obviously evolving (again..) and i'm just happy to be there witnessing it. peace from l.a. deshi. p.s. i'll try to post a review of sorts once i get back to chicago.. |
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The Knowledge Friend |
peace-
quickly, the comparison to prince is a bad one for the very reasons you state: religious zeal, bad musicians, bad compositions, an out of control ego and a $100 million contract dispute... none of these are factors in meshell's case. second, the tour date issue... poor assumptions. maverick says those are the only confirmed dates because those are the only dates they have been sent by management. i sent you the dates you posted because i believed them to be confirmed and because i have promised you i would do my best to keep info flowing. so the whole "wanting people to pay for 2 dates" argument is empty and if i were to choose to be insulted (but i don't), personally offensive. i sent them to you matthew as a courtesy because you bust your ass on this site and it deserves to be updated whenever possible. i've asked jeff to keep you in the loop but that hasn't happened; there certainly is a slight chance that some of those dates might not be final. third, the whole "over the last 10 months" is curious... she didn't gig this year until 4/15, 3 months ago... prior to that, the core band was there, so the band issue we are talking about doesn't apply. in terms of negativity on stage, meshell has always been criticized for that... whether its for singing with her eyes closed, saying "offensive" things or for not playing enough bass. she is human... over the years, she has thrown basses, cussed out bad sound engineers and gotten into fights with fans. but those who know her or have seen her live many times or even interacted with her before or after a show realize that these moments are rare and not indicative of her whole character. i will never make excuses for her being human, which also means being unprofessional on occasion... no one else should feel obligated to do so either and certainly not to keep a fan. not only are there two sides to every story, but in the end, i'm glad meshell is on stage trying to concentrate on what is and isn't working. she is a perfectionist, for better or worse, and trust me, she knows better than anybody else if the band is working or not, hence the lack of interraction and the frustration with the sound. prince, on the other hand, is trying to play his stuff off as the truth in music. fourth, the assumptons about why there are few live reviews are also poor... there were several live reviews all throughout her european and u.s. tours last year. why? because there was an album being promoted. since then, she has had about 12 shows with the new band, many as the opening act. 1) there is no album out so the wb pr dept is not encouraging the press to go to shows and 2)there is no real tie in for an editor to assign that story (everybody isn't just a fan of the music and therefore interested no matter what she does... in the broader world, meshell is just considered a talented musician who doesn't sell records, nothing like a prince or steview wonder or parliament). lastly, critics love to criticize, so no one is trying to do anybody any favors, if there were critics present at a show, he or she would write a negative review if they thought it appropriate. the reason why there have been few reviews is because there have been few shows and no press invited. that's how most reviews get written. on the point about the economics of the industry being irrelevant to the avg concert goer... absolutely true. i layed this out for you all here because you are not just concert-goers and i thought you would appreciate the complexities of the issues. i don't offer those explanations as excuses. personally, i believe meshell should have waited to gig until the fall, after finishing all recording and having time & money to rehearse. i think she made an error in judgement; do i think this is indicative of a prince-proportion fall-off? not even close. oh, and for all the talk of the band sucking, the kcrw performance is certainly not bad at all. if you listen closely, you can tell meshell is trying to build a different live experience and like her albums, some people aren't going to like it... it is more mellow, more introspective, more meditative. this is not about the band, it is about meshell. listen to GFM and you can hear what i'm talking about. my final comment on this issue is that i think that the band will continue to shift and change until she finds a fit that works for where she's heading...the musicians she had before are one-of-a-kind... it will take a minute to find the right grouping of one-of-a kinds... but the thing that keeps me from worrying is that the songwriting remains consistently good-- that's where the rubber hits the road... and if some fans hit the road, they'll just join the masses who don't get to hear the great tunes that meshell writes year in and year out. no big deal, it is just entertainment. peace, kofi |
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Admin |
it's funny deshi, but what you said is pretty much what i put both here on the polylogue and at okayplayer 24 days ago after what happened in maryland (which unfortunately, those people still haven't been told what happened...)
i was basically guessing at that point that the rehearsal time was non-existant (from things that had happened in the past.) i was trying to make excuses for her and the band without knowing anything about what happened... why? because nobody else was and if you think the comments were harsh here or at meshell.com, you should've seen them over at okayplayer  people have come to expect me to know just a little more than i do a lot of the time... this was one of those times where i felt like i could actually say something and feel pretty sure it was the truth... |
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quote:my main reasons for the prince comparisons have to deal with the band changes and the effect that it had on the live performances (and his ticket sales)... nothing more... folks will always be shocked when it comes to band changes... and compare it to the previous band(s)... this is nothing new... and with meshell's fanbase being very similar to prince's, i was attempting to explain that this is why we are seeing these kind of reactions... quote:actually those werent' just assumptions. folks will remember last april (they can check my 3rd post in this thread if they want to), i was told by soulive's manager (i didn't know at the time that he was replacing you) to not post the april dates with soulive because he didn't want them conflicting (hurting sales). quote: which is exactly why i was offended kofi. i had emailed jeff and you about dates. you responded, jeff made this poor attempt at humoring me, while at the same time saying how he was going to launch this great new meshell website in the fall. that is the last time the 2 of us will be communicating because 3 days later, you sent me those dates. the email was 4 days old and was from jeff. meaning that jeff is going to be the way it was before you were manager. he could have easily forwarded them to me, (since that was the same day that i asked him for the dates) but he did not. instead he gave me some bullshit line about how monterey is the one who notifies maverick. sometimes people need to remove the headers from their emails... little did he know, i knew better. i told you kofi back in 2001 when we met that one of the major reasons i was going to put the site back up was because you were her manager. i felt that things would change and there would be more communication. i no longer feel this way anymore. quote:i have made note of this with every tourdate announcement since the dates were cancelled in 2001 where people were really upset, always stating clearly that "all dates are tentative." (aka fly out to the show at your own risk... maverick may be forcing meshell into doing a remix of "love song #1" with guest appearances by ja rule and j-lo.) quote:well, i try not to forward links to you when the negativity began... but you'll remember my email last october when i thought you'd said that cato was no longer going to be in the band and i said it might be a good thing because in san fran last october, he just seemed kind of pissed... like he didn't want to be there... like he was upset or something about being at the back of the stage, rather than at the front like he was during the bitter tour. of course, i'd read your email wrong... it was gene that you said was probably going to be leaving the band. i went on in my reply to talk about how it would be hard to imagine her band without gene & federico... kind of interesting looking back at that now. as for the negativity, it has changed. there has been less interaction during the show with the band and the audience... more temper tantrums (from what i've read) about the sound, etc... that's cool. you and i expect that from her. but combine all of this with a band that hasn't rehearsed, or with a guitarist who just seemed not to be there last october, and it starts to make people worry. especially when there's little communication with the fanbase about any of it. i've tried my best to keep this website having to do with non-personal/personnel (both) issues. if there's a beef between meshell and a bandmember, i'm not going to talk about it here. it's none of my business. i know things will either work out or that person will be replaced... i know that in the long run, the art is the only thing that matters. fans that do not know this, are the ones that are going to miss out when they go see a show and walk away disappointed and go back to watching bet uncut instead of buying the next meshell album or concert ticket. again, because of communication. quote:true, but like i said, if the band affects the art, then there are problems. obviously the lack of rehearsal time is affecting the art and since people have no clue what is going on (all of the changes since the last time they saw her live), it can also be understood that they may also worry that maybe she's replaces allen, gene, and federico with musicians that suck (when in truth it isn't that, it's because they've not had rehearsal time together, which i assumed & said back on june 24th, 3 weeks before anyone in her inner circle stepped up and confirmed this.) quote:actually, i had this confirmed to me by a critic in los angeles... i simply didn't say it or who because he's a big fan of her work and is waiting for things to settle a bit before doing his job. quote:no one is suggesting that. and even if they were, we would still support her... however... since we're bringing up prince again, what do you think affected his downfall more than anything? for me, it was his constant desire to surround himself with YES people... that was my fear about all of these changes... especially her replacing you with jeff who apparently gave into her desire to tour too early. however, if it weren't for you're saying that it was your decision, and that it was just time for a change (aka if it wasn't you saying this kofi), then i (and those that i've spoken to privately (in attempts to reassure them that everything is okay)... well, i'd be worried still. i'm not... quote:i completely agree. the kcrw performance was a huge jump in quality over what i've heard over the last few months, and what people have written about... i agree completely with everything else you said after that... |
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Admin |
the following post comes from an anonymous poster that isn't comfortable posting under his username. someone who is my friend. a fellow musician that i respect. someone that has supported meshell from the beginning, and will continue to do so. the following words are said out of love and respect by this anonymous person.
i think one of the problems is that she so is critical of SO MANY THINGS (which is fine). however, she needs to be critiqued. more importantly she needs to read what is being said. some of what Kofi is saying comes off as excuses. so much truth in her lyrics but too much hypocrisy on stage. why would you ever have to throw a tantrum if you are doing something that you love? that's hard to swallow. outside of being sick there's no reason to cut a show down a whole hour. the band change thing is huge (15 plus years chemistry...drums, keys & bass). what we heard will not be made up in 3 weeks...EVER. extra rehearsing should have been factored in when the decision was made (my bad) evolution came to change the band. i repeat this is not the time to be playing anywhere in the vicinity of Soulive. release all expectations? they raised the bar way too high for that. basically she should be able to come on stage with a spoon and bang it against the mic stand and everything is suppose to be fine? are all expectations released when dealing with maverick? what about with sound engineers or small budgets for a record. fighting with fans? that's disturbing. for what? that's a new one on me. the new stuff is cool. i am not sure where i am with the KCRW performance. i love her, and i'm still with her. personally, she's been great to me, but i think she needs to learn how to respect her fans and all the people that are on her side. fuck the music career...i just want her to get better and get in a happy place. |
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Admirer |
thanks for your reaction; looking forward to your review of sorts.
r u sure it was chris dave? (the drummer) chris dave has been playing with meshell since april (village underground), peace.... |
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Admin |
i think she meant john? (i didn't recognize that name when meshell said it during the kcrw broadcast.) i dunno...
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Admin |
quote:i don't think it's coming off as excuses. kofi doesn't really make excuses... he either tells it like it is, or doesn't say anything at all... (which is why we haven't heard what happened at the 7pm show in maryland.) as for "throwing a tantrum" when you're doing something you love because things aren't working out like you expected them to... well. this i can completely relate to. in 1997 i repeatedly told folks that had the power at that time to do something that i would be taking the songofsolomon.com site down if there wasn't more communication between her and her fans in regards to what was going on in her career. we all know what happened next. basically, that was a temper tantrum. i stopped doing one of the few things i love doing... one of the few things that i'm good at... however, it needed to be done. it was pointless to have two sites that were basically only being updated when there were new tourdates. it was lame... it wasn't something personal, i know that... but at the same time, i felt that both meshell and her admirers deserved better. so, roll ahead to 1998. meshell.net drops... i felt better (aka less guilty) about taking songofsolomon.com down because everything that i requested for songofsolomon.com was there when meshell.net made it's debut. however, like every other meshell site that has ever come online, it was never updated again. roll ahead to 2001. i'm in san francisco and i meet kofi. he's meshell's new manager. i'd been thinking about putting songofsolomon.com back up and this basically did it. not the concerts i went to. not my talking to meshell and the band... but because kofi was her manager and i knew he understood what my reason behind taking the site down was. (meshell didn't... in 1999 when i first met her, she was under the impression that maverick made me take it down... i told her flat out that i took it down because there was no input from her or maverick and that i was tired of (literally) begging to be updated so the fans could feel that they were more than just there for her once every three years or when she toured in places other than cali & nyc... roll forward to 2002. cookie is repeatedly delayed, and maverick again completely fux0rs the marketing & promotion of the album by sending out advances 9 months before the release of the cd. most of the reviews show up in february and march. the album drops in june. the album falls off the chart. there's no major u.s. tour to promote cookie. meshell has already begun to change her sound and it's noticable immediately following the 9/11 attacks with reggae touches. cato is in the back of the stage. the show i went to, federico completely messed up on a keyboard solo... you could tell at that time changes were about to be made. kt confirmed this to me around that time. i didn't announce anything on the site because i didn't want to believe it was true. after she went through different lineups during 2003, a new band was announced just before the maryland shows and i updated the band listings on all of the "tour de funk" pages. i requested from jeff and kt who the new background singers were for someone who was doing a positive review of one of the recent shows. i heard back from kt, but not jeff. i asked jeff to confirm some of the dates that were popping up on ticketmaster/pollstar/etc... i heard nothing back. i then sent jeff a long story about freemyheart.com and my purpose for the site, and that i'd appreciate it if he'd either put me on the mailing list for tourdates, or email me personally with updates when he notified meshell's booking... a couple of days later, i got a letter addressed to a fan that basically said that he appreciated all of the work i did on the site, and that he intended to launch a new meshell website in the fall. he said he was sorry it took so long to get back to me. still, my questions weren't answered. (are all of these dates opening for soulive? are the backing vox singers going to be with her on tour, etc.) SIMPLE FUCKING BASIC QUESTIONS. a day or two later, kt emails me with the fall schedule. it had been sent a few days earlier from jeff. so... trust me... i can understand why meshell throws a fit onstage when things don't go right... or when people do stupid shit. i love keeping this site updated for meshell and her fans. as i've said in multiple posts on this message board, i look at marcusmiller.com and cringe. i think of "what could be"... and what most definitely is not. i'm left with updating the daily mp3 downloads as my only way of keeping folks coming to the site on a daily basis. on the meshell.net website, meshell said she loved surfing the 'net. someone please show her marcusmiller.com... show her jewel's website. show her rem's and rickie lee jones websites... show her bjork's and radioheads... do NOT show her okayplayer's website. show her websites that have content... show her websites where the artists keep their fans updated on what they're working on between albums... when i say it's about communication, that's what i'm talking about. other people that i speak to on a regular basis saw the band change coming before the october show i went to in 2002... but those aren't your average fans... i think if they knew why she changed the band up, and that they hadn't had rehearsal, that the response would've been different. that's my opinion. maybe it's because i think you can not have a relationship without trust and communication and respect... what happened earlier this month when jeff basically blew me off when i asked some basic questions was the same reason i took down the site in 1997. this website is not only a resource for fans, but for writers doing research for interviews. i do not think anyone but kofi in meshell's circle really knows how much time has been put into making a site that can keep fans in the know inbetween albums. i try hard. i ask for nothing in return other than updates on albums she's working on, and tour dates before they are listed on ticketmaster. so yeah... i threw a temper tantrum that i felt guilty about in 1997 when i took down the site because these simple things were not being addressed. they are not being addressed again by the new management... i appreciate kt for forwarding the information, but the point is that he shouldn't have had to. am i being a little too dramatic about this? i really don't think i am. i'm not asking jeff what time meshell gets up in the morning or what kinds of shoes she prefers... i'm not asking for anything special or unrelated to making her (AND him) money... money that makes it possible for more rehearsal time. money that makes it possible so that they are in a fucking bus and not a van that breaks down outside of philly... temper tantrums while doing something you love? yeah... i can totally relate to that... i can relate because i'm the one who's email box fills up when folks want to know what the fuck happened in maryland... i'm the one who is driven away from okayplayer because of all the negativity and i don't know how to respond because it DOES sound like there is something else going on that we aren't being told... yet we're told that she's happy and all is well... if it were anyone but kt saying that i'd shake my head in disbelief. i can count on kt to take care of meshell if something's up... basically this entire thread comes down to folks being worried because they don't know what's going on. that's fine. while we don't know what's going on, at the same time when we talk to one another privately we agree that it really isn't our business... and i constantly remind folks that even though kt isn't her manager anymore, that he is her friend... and that we can trust him to take care of things if she needs someone. kt's a straight shooter... we've already seen it several times on this thread... as for making excuses? i think that's a human trait... we want meshell to succeed very much... we all want her to be happy... we're concerned for her... temper tantrums aside... that's the only thing that should be remembered about this thread. |
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Friend |
these last few posts remind me of when i went to the last village underground show in NYC ... While waiting for the show ( i went to the 2nd one ... ) I met up with a friend who's in the band ... after the usual hug and cheat-chat (LOL) I asked how the first show went down and he looked at me a bit confused and replied ..." it was ok ..." when i inquired about the nature of his reply he just looked at me and said ..." You'll see ..." - obviously MAJOR confusion was in the air ...
Like many of the folks on these boards and who visit this site daily , being a musician I study Me'shell and her art .This site is ivaluble to many of us ...We love it and try to support it as much as we can. Drama aside, I wanna make sure that you , M , knows this ...  In addition to all of the very valid remarks that have been made regarding the last few months I must add that I feel that in a way this might be deeper that it seems to us "outsiders" at the moment ... I remember Me'shell's show in Brooklyn (@ Warsaw 24th of July 2002 ) - the sound was horrible and things kept falling apart on stage ... yet bashir pulled it through , joked around about it throughout the show and gave the audience more then 90 minutes of SOUL music ... Time will tell ...Peace . honestnotes. |
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Admirer |
i have been trying to gets my thoughts together after reading all the posts. still not which ones i will express.
honest, i was also at the 2nd vilage underground show. that was bad and was told that it was better than the 1st show. i was also at the warsaw show (we are going to have to meet up one day). i am suprised that she actually finished that show. as a musician also, i know that it is frustrating go go out and not have things go as smoove as they have gone for the past 10 years. rehersal is that important starting point.n there may be other things going on ih her camp and her life that are affecting what you see on stage. i will always support and go see all the ny shows because the bottom line is she is a hella musician. i do have to add that i think it would be in her best interest to be more involved with the online community. i too visit the marcus miller site often. he ALWAYS reponds to those who post legitmate questions and expressions of admiration. for her to come online and express that she is moving in another direction, new band, new sound, ect. would have been a great way to keep all of us up to speed and feeling like we matter. i saw and heard some intersting things at the village underground show when the current band took the stage. kt, i know you have a hard job in trying to convey what is happening and responding to everyones thoughts and feelings. i don't think that any of it is a personal attack. just concern from those that admire her. my 1.5 cents peace |
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Friend |
hmm.. i could've sworn it was chris dave that she said was on his 1st night.. but now that i think about it, maybe it was the bass player john-john webb. sorry. but he was damn good too!
 went to last night's show at the roxy (am back in chicago now.. whew! it's good to be home). can i just throw in the fact that i got a fucking JAYWALKING ticket in l.a.??? what the hell kind of shit is that? who the hell has that kind of time on their hands to issue a jaywalking ticket? how absolutely and utterly RIDICULOUS is that????? l.a. can kiss my bengali ass!!!!  ok, so.. the roxy last night. great, great show! meshell was definitely a lot more upbeat than the thursday show and the friday show was longer. first of all, at the thursday show she was wearing a skull cap the entire time so no one knew what was going on under that cap.. but on friday... homegirl was sporting tight braids with a mohawk down the middle! it was definitely funky! only meshell could pull something like that off.. i liked it!  anyway, i had a much better experience on thursday (and i promise to come back with memorable details as soon as time permits) partly due to the fact that the friday show was way more packed and therefore my positioning in the audience was less than favorable whereas on thursday i was just where i wanted to be.. in front. also, i met really cool people at the thursday show while friday seemed to attract a couple of particularly annoying people that somehow managed to be standing right in front of me and were pretty much ruining my experience. the worst part is that i couldn't even move lest i give up all hope of being able to see her at all (thanks to my being vertically challenged... and meshell as well.. hehehe..). but meshell and the band rocked it! it was pretty much the same playlist as the night before, but i didn't mind. they did a fantastic free my heart transition to fool of me that was genius! and you could totally tell that the band was tighter.. just a day later! i took a friend with me and she loved it... anyway, as for all the other discussions going down.. i guess it just seems like peeps are trying to suggest how meshell should act and run her affairs (thereby implying a certain expectation). maybe i'm wrong, but that's the vibe i'm getting here. when, in fact that's precisely one of the things i dig about her, that she doesn't give a shit what you or i think. she's gonna do what meshell wants to do and if that means sometimes making what others might consider bad decisions, well so be it. if that means losing a fan or two, well lets just say it really isn't meshell's loss.. i'd hate to think that just because we have a message board going on here that we should all somehow have a say in her business. it's one think to critique from an unbiased point of view and an entirely different thing to sit here and say stuff that you think she needs to hear.. that's not what this site is about is it? it's not a direct pipeline to her ear is it? i would think a telephone would suffice for something like that and if you ain't got her number, well then she can't hear you.. and if you do have her number then a message board doesn't seem the appropriate place to publicize.. on the other hand, i would love to see her post here but obviously she has reasons not to, whatever they may be. as a fan, yes, i do want to know when the next album will drop, and advance notice of tourdates is always nice. and when i heard about the new band the first thing i said to myself was 'why?' but then realized that maybe that's not for me to know, so i move on and wait for whatever's next. seems pretty simple eh? peace out.. [This message was edited by deshigrrrl on 07-19-03 at 15:33.] |
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Admin |
yeah. it's pretty simple.
i'm talking about things that are being passed onto meshell.com but not here. when one off concert dates aren't announced (as has been the case in the past) and aren't on either meshell.com or freemyheart, who does that benefit? i'm not suggesting that she come on this site and respond to everyone like marcus does. i'm suggesting that if she (and those around her) want to not use the "they didn't have enough money for rehearsal time" excuse, then they should do something about it... but that's just me. rusty truck info is passed on, but the dolly parton info is not. yeah, i know... who the fuck cares... nobody's going to buy either album anyways other than jackie drexler. while one could make that point, it's still lame. how hard can it be to make it so the info is together and passed onto the only site that will update the info as soon as it's provided? while i too enjoy the "i don't give a fuck" attitude that meshell has, it obviously doesn't apply to her being a perfectionist. and without money for more rehearsal time, the band isn't ready. as you said, every show out they improve. good for them. but what about those earlier tour dates? should those cities that paid the same as you have a lesser show for it? i don't know. i think my "anonymous" friend was dead on it when he said meshell is often hypocritical when it comes to stuff like that. try taking a moment and looking at what works for other artists and maybe try the things that you are comfortable with. or one can become an independent artist and do what has been done since 1996. set up a website and never update it. even soulive's website isn't up to date... i mean, is this the future that is supposed to be so much better? is this what we've been looking forward to? meshell could get out of her contract with maverick so things could basically be the same (or worse) than they are now? time will tell... as i've said before multiple times, it may have to do with her contract (lack of communication/utilizing the 'net), but at the same time, both management and maverick has shown a distinct pattern when it comes to not utilizing people who are willing to do things for free. i know meshell appreciates the work i do for her with this site. my point is that i really don't think she understands what a difference it would make (both on a personal level, and on a financial level) if more of an effort were made to let the fans know what's up. (either herself or through management.) that's all i'm saying. that's all i've ever been saying... |
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Friend |
quote: i totally agree..i'm not trying to say what she should do or not do, i just want to hear the woman! |
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Supporter Friend |
Regarding the using the live shows as rehearsal time…
As usual i kinda come down somewhere in between on this issue (Libra's do that). Even though i am not a music critic, i found myself feeling exactly as m mentioned that an LA critic was feeling ...where as before i would have told EVERYONE "go to her live show NOW you will be blown away, PERIOD", after the Rams Head show and some of the other reviews that have been posted I kinda’ put that “across the board’ recommendation on hold for a bit…or at least I was more selective about who I suggested should go see her at that point (I’d only tell people who I knew have the same attitude towards live music as I do…a love for the journey as much as the destination). My thought for holding back on an across the board recommendation was, until the band as a group tightened up a bit more, I was worried that the average casual music listener might not appreciate a rehearsal type show as much as a music junkie like myself would. Sure I (a hardcore music fan) find the 'on the spot' experimenting & adjusting very interesting, creative, and ultimately entertaining and satisfying, (I always said I'd love to sit in on the band rehearsing...and now the live shows are truly that)...Yeah a hardcore cat like me will still LOVE that raw rehearsal experience, but i do also understand that many regular music listeners may not be as excited as I to see a rehearsal show. So while I PERSONALLY feel LUCKY for the opportunity to see the work in progress evolve right in front of me, i also understand that for some concert goers this could be too much of an 'unfinished thing' to consider it a completely satisfying experience if they were expecting a ‘finished’ thing. Their loss in my opinion, but a simple thing like managing expectations could go a long way to turning that around. Expectations are weird and powerful things…it seems like they shouldn’t matter but expectations can affect the enjoyment level of just about anything. For instance you may actually like Strawberry Milk just fine…but if you reach over and grab a drink EXPECTING it to be Chocolate Milk and you take a big gulp and it turns out to be STRAWBERRY Milk, your first reaction may be somewhat negative…even though Strawberry Milk is actually good to you too. It may take your taste-buds a while to switch modes from the Chocolate expectations to accepting the Strawberry reality. Of course if you had been expecting Strawberry all along, there would have been no problem at all, no adjustment period needed. So, (to try to bring this milk rambling back to music …as simple and irrelevant as it may SEEM, I think the announcement she sometimes makes at the beginning of some of her shows that ‘this will be like a jam session rehearsal’ is absolutely valid and valuable especially with a new band working it all out and getting its own wings. No, she probably really shouldn’t have to worry at all about whatever expectations people may bring to her shows...I’m just saying that that little statement she sometimes makes probably does help more than we realize. This announcement, or something like it, helps to prepare any expectations of any of those who may have come in expecting the regular flavor…this will set them up so that, from note one, their audio taste-buds will understand and be more ready & open to experience some of the new flavors. And from what I heard on KCRW yesterday, those new flavors are tasting juuust fine… (there's another post about that |
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Friend  |
quote: great analogy, derek. and thank you...you've basically said exactly what i feel on this topic but haven't taken the time to articulate. |
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